Tribe.net. Local Connections hartage http://bbr.tribe.net/thread/1fe777f7-3ac8-40e3-9568-762915d56a5c#d59f434f-fd4f-4c6f-8263-60cb83ee2fa5 2009-05-19T18:54:28Z 2009-05-19T18:54:28Z

I just wanted to point out that my reply to Janjap was BEFORE my reply to john. Please look at the time stamps of the posts. I just don't want it misconstrued that I replied to janjap after my statement to withdraw from this thread. Everybody just seems way to touchy and even making a suggestion gets one jumped on. (Flo) With this carification I again withdraw from this thread.

hartage 2009-05-19T18:54:28Z hartage http://bbr.tribe.net/thread/1fe777f7-3ac8-40e3-9568-762915d56a5c#afc3c9fe-03cc-484b-b162-acfe5b5a4ce1 2009-05-19T18:41:13Z 2009-05-19T18:41:13Z

John, Excellent point and observation. Hatered is a disease and I've seen it spread. One or two unhealthy people bring it into a group and even previously calm easygoing people change their behavior. (no alluded reference to anybody esp not in this thread now) It takes an effort by everyone to counter and hopefully reverse the disease brought in. It is nice to have a person like you that takes time to read historically what has happend at the bear and remind the rest of us of that. I can do nothing but agree with you on your observation and on the right course of action, for everyone to just treat each other with love. On that note, I will just apologize to anybody here that my posts may have offended. It was not my intention to do so. I will strive to get back into the spirit of what created the bear to begin with, to treat each other with love and compassion. With that, I withdraw from this thread and wish everyone well.

hartage 2009-05-19T18:41:13Z hartage http://bbr.tribe.net/thread/1fe777f7-3ac8-40e3-9568-762915d56a5c#01492e7d-9fdd-4235-8ee5-8d6840338c84 2009-05-19T18:25:23Z 2009-05-19T18:25:23Z

Janjapp.... you completely misunderstand me. I am not as you say "invoking landlord/tenant relationships" I was just merely making aware that legally that happens at the two week mark. That happens weather you or I like it or not. Before the two week mark it is merely asking a person to leave, after the two week mark you have to get an eviction approved by a judge. The passing of the two week mark gives the person staying at a residence a set of legal rights and OPTIONS that was not available to them before in making it harder to get them to move on. In the issue of responsibility.... Please look up the definition of trust and trustee and their legalities. YOU I reapeat.... Y O U are the one complicating this issue by mentioning or rather entangling me into communal responsibility as you see it. I have made no reference to commune, the law applies evenly commune or not because the issue is residency or not, guest or not. I was making a suggestion and pointing out the importance of the two week mark as it relates to legalities and difficulty to compel a person to move on. I am using the legal defenition of trust and trustee and their duties as a trustee. I am N O T addressing any duties of a commune or any other issues that you may or may not have in your personal head as you see fit. What I did is akin to someone saying....... "oh by the way the blacktop ends in two miles and if you go further than that might be a good idea to have the number of the tow company handy in case you get stuck" You can take the suggestion or leave it, it is a suggestion and nothing more. There is no need to get into a discussion about if you think it is your communal duty or not to avoid calling a tow company or not. I certainly am not the "enemy" I am just a guy making a suggestion.

hartage 2009-05-19T18:25:23Z Thatch http://bbr.tribe.net/thread/1fe777f7-3ac8-40e3-9568-762915d56a5c#39bf25a5-b942-40c9-8379-a438edd52da9 2009-05-19T17:55:37Z 2009-05-19T17:55:37Z

This post has become quite interesting AND disturbing to me on some levels. I've watched this thing grow for the past few days and have had to try to figure out some "bigger picture" issues for myself as a result of. I've lately been reading the book of stories that came from out of here and have discovered a "thread" of what the old timers went through with interpersonal relationships and their vision. There seemed to me to be a real love amongst people for the most part....it was something strived hard to maintain. I don't get the sense of that being much the case anymore. Of course, personalties and character defects are always going to cause difficulties, but those usually work themselves out if handled in the spirit of love (and I don't mean saying that "I'm gonna love that sorry S.O.B." through gritted teeth)...I mean with a genuine feeling of love towards another human being. Now, I'm sure there will be people that are gonna read that and say I'm immature, naive, ridiculous or any number of adjectives, but trust me....I'm a brash, in-your-face, dirty S.O.B. myself that will stand toe to toe with the best of them and argue with a fencepost! I've never liked that about myself and consequently, those around me didn't like me either. That's a large part of why I came here to live. I wanted to fully change that person that I was, into something more of what I know myself to be on the inside...a man of compassion, love and understanding for others. I've needed just those things through 20 some odd years of alcohol and drug addiction and found it nowhere (makes for a miserable existence). After over 3 1/4 years clean and sober now, coming to the ranch was my progression to the next level of my becoming part of the human race once again. Here, I am offered the oppportunity to change my remaining character defects and let the inside pour forth and spread. Just the act of smiling at people, engaging them in conversation, saying good morning (not grumbling it as a response), continually trying to place myself in someone elses shoes, etc. are extremely difficult for me to do...yet I persevere because I know with doing it, it becomes more familiar, my "guard"is let down, I become vulnerable and have to place trust in those around me not to exploit that. There is where the love comes into play. I made a decision to love the people here as family. I came with the notion that the people who live here, the people who have lived here and the people who have yet to live here, would become my family....just like regular brothers, sisters, cousins, aunts, uncles, etc. The steady stream of jumping on peoples' asses that I read on tribe indicate to me that there seems to be a lot more of the "us vs. them" mentalty than one of love for each other. We all associated with the ranch have a common thread, a bond, if you will, much akin the the blood that runs through a families veins. Some people in our family get off track a little (view it as them getting very sick). Wht one of us wouldn't try to do everything we could to help one of our own bioloical family members if they ere sick? Why should the great Black Bear family be any different? Where is that love? Why is there a difference? Many people of the greater Bear community contributed to my making the decision in coming here to live by their great proclamations of the "spirit" and "love" of the Bear. Where is that spirit and love when one of us goes astray? I venture to say that it's at that very time that the person need tthe love and support of family the most...not an ass chewing, disenfranchisment, or be ostrasised. Take it or leave it. I don't have the power to convince anyone of anything....my thoughts are mine and may very well be a load of crap (my contrbution to the garden). All I know is that, FOR ME, I am continually going to strive to love each person here; resident, visitor, returning Bear, posters on the tribe, etc. to the best of my ability. And when problems arise I'm committing myself to try to deal with it in the spirit of love to the best of my abilities. I'm of the firm belief that things are the way they're SUPPOSED to be, RIGHT HER, RIGHT NOW and al I gotta keep doing is "THE NEXT RIGHT THING."

Thatch 2009-05-19T17:55:37Z janjaap http://bbr.tribe.net/thread/1fe777f7-3ac8-40e3-9568-762915d56a5c#05ec2fb9-56ee-4c79-9861-ae98dbf22e56 2009-05-19T16:30:56Z 2009-05-19T16:30:56Z

To Flo: I regret and object to the tone of your reply. I think it's childish, and in NO WAY helpful. It perpetuates an atmosphere of disrespect and name calling that is disgraceful To Hartage : your suggestion of getting help from " the authorities" , calling in a "Trustee", invoking landlord/tenant relationships run counter to EVERYTHING that Black Bear Ranch is about. A trustee has NO MORE obligation to safeguard the Ranch than ANY OTHER MEMBER of the " Black Bear Family " . It is as a member of the "Black Bear Family" that I spoke up about Pixie, fulfilling what I see as MY responsibility, to initiate an awareness and a discussion WITHIN our community, that needs to be addressed: the relationship between the "Black Bear Family" and current or future residents of Black Bear Ranch: our responsibilities, our duties, our commitment, our understanding, and our individual and communal growth. To Nicole: thank you for your reply. As you can read in my original post I objected to Pixie's possible return " in the absence of any form of prior communication". I want to stress "PRIOR" since a lot of "our" apprehension is based on a history of being faced with "done deeds", "it's already happened".

janjaap 2009-05-19T16:30:56Z hartage http://bbr.tribe.net/thread/1fe777f7-3ac8-40e3-9568-762915d56a5c#371e5628-490d-409d-ae27-78ba03d00eea 2009-05-19T05:10:24Z 2009-05-19T05:10:24Z

Why get all legal ? First off it's not "my" dirty work, I'm just suggesting timelines relative to increase in difficulty (legally). I don't know pixie and am talking in general terms when a person must leave. "piss on her shoes. wipe boogers on her hair.... throw rotten eggs and holler get out." Not my style. Besides you don't know people's disposition. I'll just bluntly say this.... you don't know if the person you just yelled at or wiped boogers on has ptsd. (post traumatic stress disorder) Doing something as small as that could push them over the edge and you find your self on the receiving end of a stabbing binge a half second later. Unless you know the person well that they are not likely to snap, provoking people like that could be the last thing you do. Do you know what a trustee is ? It is a person or persons charged with acting in the best interests of the trust. It is their job, their legal duty and obligation to act in the best interest of the trust. I'd much rather have LE (law enforcement) deal with LE issues. Just like I'd much rather have my doctor deal with my health issues. Proper tool for the job. Besides, all I'm doing are making suggestions. People can take or leave what I suggest. No reason to get all worked up.

hartage 2009-05-19T05:10:24Z nicole http://bbr.tribe.net/thread/1fe777f7-3ac8-40e3-9568-762915d56a5c#75eb59d3-25a9-4978-9d10-c7cb71fb9258 2009-05-19T03:41:41Z 2009-05-19T03:41:41Z

I lived with Pixie for about 4 months. I want to say that I hope that if she comes back, that she at least be given the opportunity to speak. To tell those living there where she is at. In reflection of the time I spent with her, I see great misunderstanding. She is a dynamic person.........not one to linger in the background. I think her intentions in some of her endeavors were good. I also see that she had a hard time dealing with setbacks to her plans. I don't want to say too much. I had numerous disagreements with her, some of them simple miscommunication. Most of them. I think everyone had that on some level. She is very clear about what she wants, about her vision.........I think she sometimes struggled with how her wants affected other people, with how to have her own vision alongside others. We all have that. I think we struggle with that more when we know exactly what we want, when we know our passion..........when someone or something comes between it, it is hard to reorganize. When I think of her now it isn't with frustration. I hope she is doing ok. She had a great dream of finding a wild horse, and packing it to Idaho. But, she fell and broke her collarbone. If that wasn't hard enough, her horse killed her partner's horse. She gave her horse to him. Looking back I can now see that if she had trouble communicating or being communal enough, it was b/c her heart broke. Her spirit was struggling. People do change..........perhaps the Pixie who will return will not be the same one you remember. Perhaps her hardships have helped her grow. Let her speak. And listen.

nicole 2009-05-19T03:41:41Z kathleen http://bbr.tribe.net/thread/1fe777f7-3ac8-40e3-9568-762915d56a5c#a1752290-82d4-4cb1-a106-323371d62518 2009-05-19T01:15:37Z 2009-05-19T01:15:37Z

who is pixie.....any good anarchist can out yell the legal bullshit. At BBR we just yell and howler and intimindate.....etc, etc..... flo why must you get legal and get the trustee's to do your dirty work... piss on her shoes. wipe boogers on her hair....throw rotten eggs. and holler get out me again flo

kathleen 2009-05-19T01:15:37Z hartage http://bbr.tribe.net/thread/1fe777f7-3ac8-40e3-9568-762915d56a5c#f8318665-15a4-47ee-a90d-4da5893951f9 2009-05-18T19:03:35Z 2009-05-18T19:03:35Z

Can one of the local trustees call the national forest station in town and have them escort said person out as a trespasser ? Any of the trustees should have the legal ability to enact that. It might be a good idea to do it before 2 weeks passes of said person being there. At that point a whole other set of laws kicks in (tenant/landlord) that makes it more difficult. At that point the person becomes a resident (legaly) and it becomes not a simple trespassing issue but an eviction issue. Just my random thoughts though.....

hartage 2009-05-18T19:03:35Z janjaap http://bbr.tribe.net/thread/1fe777f7-3ac8-40e3-9568-762915d56a5c#ca096958-3c45-449d-8f86-ff9e5f5da9fd 2009-05-18T17:47:25Z 2009-05-18T17:47:25Z

There is a rumor/announcement/mention of the possible return of Pixie to Black Bear Ranch. I want to go hereby on record as vigorously opposed to that. Pixie has in the past shown such disregard for communication and communal welfare, that she was eventually told she was no longer welcome. Simply by the fact that she would consider coming back to Black Bear Ranch WITHOUT ANY FORM OF PRIOR COMMUNICATION , she, in my view, demonstrates a continuation of that lack of respect for and understanding of the communal aspect of Black Bear Ranch. The Ranch is not a place where any one who comes down that road, can simply do as he or she pleases.

janjaap 2009-05-18T17:47:25Z